Desire comes in many forms, don’t you think? I would say that in most cases, people associate desire with some kind of returned pleasure. So, desiring a new car, or a new job, or a new house, etc… let’s call this ‘want desire.’
There is also a desire that comes from necessity; a part of human nature, like desiring water when you are thirsty. Water does bring pleasure as well, but the desire is caused by a need to drink… it is something innately driven. Of course, this kind of desire is not just physical like sex or food; an example being the desire to want to be loved, or the desire for proper justice. Let’s call this ‘natural desire.’
What about the desire for God? If you are a believer in God, then you will get into all sorts of problems if you fall in the ‘want desire’ camp. Wants change; wants are driven by emotions; wants let you down; wants are consumerist.
I propose that the desire for God is a natural fabric of humanity; it is an innately driven desire. As the early Christian thinker, St. Augustine stated “Thou hast created us for Thyself, and our heart is not quiet until it rests in Thee.”
But if the God desire is innate, then why doesn’t everybody believe in God? This is where it gets complicated, I think, but there is also another natural desire which is in us. That is the desire for us to be our own; we want to be free (whatever that means) to do whatever we want, and we really don’t like the idea of a sovereign being above us. Therefore, we do our best to suppress the knowledge of God.
It’s too simplistic for me to think that I believe in God because the idea brings me pleasure, that it defines a purpose for me, or satisfies my intellect. To be honest, if I really wanted to live in ‘want desire,’ then it’s easier to do so without belief in God.
I believe in God because I cannot do otherwise; it is as natural as breathing.
Lack Of Pleasure
There are a lot of times where belief and even faith in God brings no pleasure at all for me. Think about it. If we really have faith if means there are a load of in the moment pleasures were not going to chase after, we will have a struggle of living a self centered lifestyle vs. an other centered lifestyle, and we give up on putting out desires first and try to put Gods first. Sure, deep down we know that following God is better for us but all to often it doesn't feel that way.
This is one of those perplexing things about the God of the bible. It isn't rooted in human desire and, much of the time, is rooted in ideals that are the exact opposite of our desires.
When we bring passion into the mix it seems to be an amazing contradiction where people are so passionate about God and his plan which is in direct opposition to our innate desires.
Relational desire
good thoughts Matt,
I had been thinking about a follow-up to this very post, because 'desire' is a complex subject. My initial thoughts - "God desire" functions very much like the desire to want to live after death. It is innately driven.
However, the desire you mentioned is a little different, it is very much like the desire to do God's will, and our human natural desires fight against that. I would argue that the way through this problem is relational. My desire to be in relationship with God must surpass my natural desires to do what I want.
For example, when I married my wife, I found that I did/do things with her that I normally would not desire to do on my own. I go to the Ballet with her not because I desire to experience a ballet, but because my relationship (being with her) surpasses my desire for the ballet.
In God's case, being married to God isn't just doing what he wants you to do via pleasure, but following God's will is indeed "life." So, I cling to God because I want to be in relationship with him, and allow that to control my desires.
pleasure
This kind of reminds me of where the Bible speaks about men becoming lovers of pleasure more than lovers of God in the end times. If you read the whole chapter of 2 Timothy 3, or at least the first thirteen verses and it's hard to argue against Jesus coming back very soon.
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"I do not seek to understand that I may believe, but I believe that I may understand: for this I also believe, that unless I believe I will not understand." --Anselm of Canterbury
Has there ever been a time....
Has there ever been a time where men weren't lovers of pleasure? When I look back at history I don't know if I see a time where this wasn't true.
Although, this is an end times verse. When I think of the end times I think of a race, like a 25k, and the end being something like the last few kilometers. I'm not sure that is the case in the way Paul is phrasing this passage. I wonder, what does the end times mean in relation to how we think of the end.
A few times
I think the case with the passage is not so much if men were or were not lovers of pleasure, but rather the balance between God and pleasure taking the main focus in men's lives.
If you look back at history (from a Christian point of view) you see that things tend to go in a cycle. Things start with a focus on God, then gradually fall away as men focus on themselves. You see it first with the fall of man from Eden up until the flood. Then the starting with Noah up until Jesus comes. After Jesus comes the start of the early church and from there you get small instances of turning back to God from a state of having been fallen away like the Reformation, and the creation of the United States as a country founded on the truths in the Bible (I'm not historian so forgive me for kind of "eyeballin' it").
I guess what I'm getting at here is that as we approach end times, it's more of a degradation that we'll see than just approaching a finish line. I think what Paul was saying to Timothy is a perfect example of how things are really starting to shape up in our current world. Just read the news, you'll see plenty of examples that fit into the different things he mentions in chapter 3. As time moves on, things just seem to be moving faster too. Case in point, just the other day California judges decided (against the majority vote no less) it was ok to be Gay. Now today, we've got news that New York and part of Florida are headed the same direction. Couple that with all the articles you see these days about our "accelerated lifestyles" and I think it's only going to snowball from here on out.
That's why I believe it's safe to say that the we're rapidly matching Paul's description in 2 Timothy 3 (and Jesus' in Mark 13 for that matter) and that the end is right around the corner.
As far as degradation goes, here is an article for anyone interested to wrap their brain around for just a bit.
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"I do not seek to understand that I may believe, but I believe that I may understand: for this I also believe, that unless I believe I will not understand." --Anselm of Canterbury
Interesting Note
You make an interesting conclusion there on the end times coming, although, it should be noted that people have been saying that since these verses were first written.
I made my reply in a blog
I made my reply in a blog post. Didn't want to get too off topic with my ramblings.
In other news, maybe someone could teach me how to do those tags things? :)
Nevermind, got it.