A common objection against the existence of God is as follows...
“Religion is just a crutch... people believe in God because it makes them feel good, and gives them hope in an after life.”
Karl Marx called religion “the sigh of the oppressed creature” and “the opium of the people,” and the humanist manifesto II states that “traditional religions are often solace to people.”
Truth/Feeling Distinction
The first point that can be said about this form of objection is that the arrival of a conclusion says nothing about the fact of the truth claim. In other words, even if it is true that most religious people believe in God because of a psychological need, this says nothing about whether God does in fact exist or not.
God in Man’s Image
Second, if man is to construct a God to satisfy his desires, I’m not so sure the Christian God falls in that category. What I am stating is that following Christ is not an easy endeavor (or at least we are told that it shouldn’t be). Quite honestly, if I don’t believe that Christianity is actually true, then there are a lot of other worldviews that would be more gratifying to me, including atheism which would give me the green light to live life for my own pleasure — survival of the fittest.
“The curious thing about the God of the Bible is how unlike us He is. His wisdom confuses us; His purity frightens us. He makes moral demands we can’t live up to, then threatens retribution if we don’t obey. Instead of being at our beck and call, He defies manipulation. In His economy, the weak and humble prevail and the last become first.”
– Greg Koukle
Innate Desire
My final point is as follows: If most people in the history of the world have had the desire that there is something more than this world has to offer, is it not somewhat probable to think that this desire is both innate and valid. Is it not reasonable to think that the desire for a creator is not just wishful thinking, but a glimpse into the purpose of our human self?
Assumptions?
Is it just me or, is this topic riddled with assumptions? For example, "people believe in God because it makes them feel good". Does it actually make people feel good? Or, calling it the "the sigh of the oppressed creature". What about all the people who follow religion who aren't oppressed?
We even find these assumptions in the church. I've herd a contradiction to this article that says that man is so much like God because we are made in his image. Now, I don't buy into this since we are made in the image of the fallen Adam.
At the very least I'd like to see more talk about the assumptions inherent in all these statements. I think they would shed some light on this topic and help us better wrap our minds around this.
Worldview
Assumptions or axioms are what make up our worldview. Our worldview helps define our faith. What do we trust in? I think that many Americans have a therapeutic god, because the prevailing worldview discounts the supernatural. They will give lip service to God but when push comes to shove it is the material world and themselves they trust in. Unfortunately, that view can be in our churches too. To say that we are made in the image of God, I believe is true, but I believe it is a corrupted image because of sin, not the original image that Adam was made in. Unfortunately, if given without the context of our sin, it ends up giving support to the idea of a therapeutic god. We need to remember it is not about us (another assumption) but it is about God and what he has done in and through Jesus for us.
I think one of the most basic assumptions is "Does God exist?". Yes or No defines how you view the world. It is really at the forefront of the Atheism versus Christianity debate. I believe this assumption determines whether you see evidence in the surrounding world for a God or not.
Supernatural
I've recently gotten into a number of discussions about the supernatural lately. At the root of these is people asking why don't we see supernatural events like those recorded in biblical times. Where is something supernatural on the level of parting a sea or casting out demons?
The hardest part is that I don't think many people are equipped to have that conversation. For a long time I wasn't and I think these are good questions and discussing them can make a difference.
I've even been told by some that supernatural things just don't happen anymore and for years that's what I thought. In many ways the failure of the church to talk about this part of life and the world has lead to this state of things.
Bringing this back around to assumptions, I don't think we talk about them enough. The assumptions I hold are not the same as the person who sits next to me at work. And, his assumptions are different than the person who sits next to him. If nothing else, they can help us better understand other people and where we are at in the world.
supernatural thoughts
I wonder sometimes if 'supernatural' events can sometimes be misinterpreted because of the commitment to materialism. So, a person who is suddenly cured from cancer apart from medical assistance (stunning the physicians), would not be regarded as a supernatural event.
Sometimes we could make the mistake of seeing miracles in everything, and sometimes we don't give enough credit to divine intervening.
sorry, I know I'm not directly responding to your questions... just thinking out loud.
The last thought I had is from that great line in the movie "usual suspects." -- "the greatest trick the devil ever played was convincing people he didn't exist."
so, how would a demon convince the world he didn't exist? he would stop possessing people.
our culture
I think you final comment there really fits well with the supernatural in America. I mean, if we dealt with issues of Exorcist-like possession on a regular basis (like people do in other parts of the word), it could very well drive people to faith because they're seeking a spiritual solution to an obviously spiritual problem.
However, if we don't even think about spiritual things because they aren't in front of our faces, then there's no need to pursue a spiritual answer.
Does It Happen?
In the western world or even the media penetrated world I'd agree that possession wouldn't be the norm if there was a tactical advantage not to do it. But, what about places where there isn't much of any media penetration? I've herd that missionaries have seen this kind of thing in these places.
On the flip side, because we are in such a media penetrated world when an Exorcist-like possession happens what happens if that gets out into the media? What would happen to the people involved? I can see it being more loving to keep something like that behind closed doors for the sake of the people involved.
I'm still left with the question, when people ask for examples of the supernatural today what should we point to as examples?
other worlds
Sorry, I don't think I completed my thoughts earlier. I meant to say that, in other cultures, the spiritual awareness is heightened, and they see evidence of both the holy and the demonic. But part of their culture is to embrace the spiritual so they are, unlike us, already tuned into its reality ... in some cases (like the beliefs that have allowed AIDS to go pandemic in parts of Africa), overly so.
As for evidence of supernatural involvement in our world today, that's a really interesting question. There are a lot of things that leave me in awe and make me think of the God who's behind it all, but that's because I operate with the presupposition that there's a God. Any suggestions? Anybody? Bueller ... Bueller ...
Today and the supernatural
I don't know if this would satisfy your question, but in regard to the BIG supernatural events:
The history in the Bible is actually very long.... I think it covers 4 thousand years from Abraham to Christ? and even within that period... there were few BIG events that defy natural phenomenom. So... the stopping of the sun, parting of the red sea, etc... of course the Jesus miracles like the resurrection.
So, when somebody says "why aren't there any big supernatural events today?' like in Biblical times? I would want to question what they mean by 'today'?
sometimes the perception is that you have this division between' the modern world' and then 'the ancient world' but the timeline spans rather long.
so true
I'm not sure why I didn't say this. It's something I've pointed out in the past, but for whatever reason, it didn't even cross my mind today. Thanks, I think you're dead on.
Small ones?
What about small ones... like exorcisms?
doesn't deny
What I love about Paul's comment is that, while it allows for miracles and other supernatural events, it points out that, by and large, it shouldn't surprise us when it doesn't happen.
However, exorcisms (like the one the movie is based on), are legit events and examples of this.
honest about assumptions
I love that opening line on assumption being the very things that make up our worldview. In my mind, knowing these assumptions and being honest about them, really enables discussion on the issue because we can see where we are both similar and different, and then, we can see where that worldview takes us and how it all fleshes out.
This journey is, to me, the best way of discerning the validity of a worldview, after all, if your assumptions don't work when fleshed out and applied to life, odds are your worldview has some weaknesses.
Presuppositions
maybe this is splitting hairs, but for me, I like to make the distinction between presuppositions and assumptions when it relates to worldviews.
so, my belief in a God is a presupposition in that he is transparently real apart from any evidential prerequisite. In other words, believing in God for me is a basic belief -- I cannot find myself not believing in God because based on how I perceive reality, it is necessary that he exists.
however, I make assumptions that God is a certain way (let's say Trinitarian) based on believing certain evidences (historical events, who Jesus is, etc...)
The only reason I make this distinction is because there is a hard/soft difference between these terms. 'Assuming something' is always based on prior beliefs, but when you get down to the core of your beliefs, they are presupposed. An Atheist needs to admit that he presupposes something about reality before affirming or declining his assumptions.
I think Pinehall is correct in bringing this discussion to assumptions/pressups via the 'Religion is a crutch' topic.
I'm game
I'm game with that. Let's face it, words are powerful.
A good word
I am going to have to add presupposition to my vocabulary. Thanks.
If I made my own God - it
If I made my own God - it would be nothing like Christ. He wouldn't have made a sacrifice for me, He wouldn't demand moral though and action, He wouldn't want me to worship him..in fact, if I could make my own God..my own God would be....me. I think that's true for everyone.
This alone makes me realize that a true God requires more than just self-love. The love of others and the sacrifice of desire...that is something that a God not made up to make humans "Feel better" would be about.